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Highlights from MGA 2004 Summer Convention in Baltimore, Maryland -
July 20-24, 2004

�Learn to Reach Your Customers in a Multichannel World�

MGA would like to thank our convention sponsors:

Diamond
Gardening How-To Magazine
Horticulture Magazine
Organic Gardening Magazine

Platinum
Brown Printing Co.
Fine Gardening Magazine
Millard Group
Quad/Graphics
Spencer Press

Gold
Berkshire Direct Inc.
DMC International
Fafard Mantis
Marketshare Publications
National Country Market
The Weiss Group
Zed Marketing Group

Silver
Brookside Marketing
Chilcutt Direct Marketing

Convention Giveaway Gifts Provided by:
Presidio Products
Anywear Shoes
National Gardening Association

 

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - Pre-Convention Day

MGA Board of Directors Meet, Begin Strategic Planning
Following its regular meeting, the board of directors met with an outside facilitator to begin steps for developing a strategic plan which will help grow the MGA to greater heights. They discussed the characteristics of effective boards and associations and then did a self ranking of where the MGA is in respect to each characteristic. The board looked at its strengths, challenges it faces and threats to the success of the association and the industry.

Board members also discussed the future of the association, did some green lighting on a vision statement, and worked on updating the mission/purpose of the organization. The MGA board of directors is committed to continuing to work on a strategic plan which will enable the organization to better serve its current membership and attract new members, too.

 

Pre-Convention Fun
A group of MGA golfers (and golfer wanna-bes) headed to the links on Tuesday afternoon to enjoy a round at the Waverly Woods Golf Club in the Baltimore suburbs. Although no verified scores were submitted for publishing, it was rumored that MGA President Bruce Frasier, Dixondale Farms came back the winner. Anyone want to vouch for or disprove that rumor?

Another option for pre-convention fun was a guided bus tour of several well-known sites in Baltimore. First stop on the tour was Babe Ruth�s Birthplace, which also currently houses alot of Baltimore Orioles and Baltimore Colts memorabilia.

Regardless of which sports team you�re a fan of, you would probably enjoy the Babe Ruth Birthplace and Orioles Museum. Not only is Babe�s colorful history presented well, the small building also houses an enormous amount of general baseball and football history. Shown above in photo at left is Judy Miller, wife of Skip Miller, Miller Nurseries, comparing the grip of a bat Babe Ruth used with a modern day bat. Amy Carey (center photo), Berkshire Direct, commented she�s going to bring her husband, an avid baseball fan, back to the museum sometime. Tom and Julie Johns, Territorial Seeds (right photo), and their children were among the group of pre-convention tourists. Julie (second from right, back row) seems to be listening intently to the tour guide (shown in red hat in center of photo) as they look out over the Baltimore Harbor.

 

Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - Day One

Basic and Advanced Level Direct Marketing Workshops
Responding to member requests for �Basic� and �Advanced� level workshops, attendees could select between sessions addressing Catalog Creative and Circulation Techniques. Gina Valentino, Vice President and General Manager, J. Schmid & Associates, Inc., led the Catalog Creative sessions and Michelle Houston, Senior Circulation Manager, LENSER, conducted the Circulation Technique discussions.

 

�Do it Yourself Catalog Creative� (Basic)
Gina Valentino, J. Schmid & Associates, Inc.
 
When it comes to the basics of good creative, the methodology or �scorecard� is the same for large and small companies. Valentino presented a creative checklist for evaluating the basic framework of a catalog�s creative. The average response rate of consumers who actually purchase from a catalog is relatively low (8% for repeat customers and only 1.5% for prospects), so it�s very important to make your catalog work for you.


Dick Zondag, J. W. Jung Seed Co. (left), visits with Gina Valentino, J. Schmid & Associates, following the Basic Catalog Creative workshop.

Some of the key points Valentino covered during the Basic workshop included:

  • BACK COVER -- Utilize the back cover to test creative. At least 30% of all consumers go from back to front when reading a catalog.
  • FRONT COVER -- When designing the front cover, remember that �less is more�. Don�t clutter the front cover, making it difficult for the consumer to look at. The front cover is a great place to put your best seller.
  • INSIDE FRONT COVER -- If you include a letter on page two, make it appealing to the customer, emphasizing what�s in it for them (using �you� and �your�, not �me� or �I�). Good location for table of contents.
  • BACKGROUND COLOR -- If the background color on a catalog page becomes more important than the product, it is time to change that background.
  • ICONS -- As with so many creative aspects, when developing icons, always evaluate them from the consumer�s viewpoint? Will they understand what it means at first glance?
  • COPY -- Help your customer buy the product. Tell the story. Use headlines to guide the customer to the page. Use customer testimonials, �how-to� copy and �did you know� non-selling copy scattered throughout the catalog to help boost interest and sales.
  • ORDER FORM -- Make sure it contains all customer service information. Use visual cues to make the order form easier to follow and complete (especially to help them know where to start. Restate your guarantee on the order form.
  • YOUR CATALOG IS YOUR SALESPERSON -- No one will ever know as much as you do. The catalog copy is your voice -- explain what you want the customer to know. Make it easy for your customers to shop with you.
  • TYPEFACES/COLOR -- Use color type sparingly and select colors that are �potent� not �toxic�. Red and green are both vibrant colors, but should not be used together. For product copy, use a black typeface on white or very light background. And don�t use more typefaces on a page than you can count on one hand.

 

�Better Tools for Better Creative� (Advanced)
Gina Valentino, J. Schmid & Associates, Inc.
Catalog creative isn�t just about looking nice. Most importantly, you want your catalog to be profitable. Realizing that many catalogers wear a variety of task hats in their work, Valentino provided tools in this session that help catalogers make better business decisions when getting ready to design their catalogs. Topics discussed included:
  • DATA DRIVEN DESIGN -- It�s important to know which of your products are the best sellers and then give them prominent space in your catalog. Each spread should have a �hero� shot based upon a best-selling item.
  • BRANDING OPPORTUNITIES -- Know what sets your company apart from others and tout your strong points. Consistently reinforce your brand both in the catalog and on the web site.
  • CONTACT STRATEGIES -- Be able to identify on your database your active customers, inactive customers, catalog requestors, internet buyers and non-buyers.
  • HEADLINES & SUBHEADS -- Use headlines to entice customers to read the rest of the page or spread. Be aware that photo captions are often the first thing read on a page. The second thing often read is the product price.
  • EASE OF SHOPPING -- Mix and match products to give customers opportunity to buy more than one item for their garden. You want to give them the option of purchasing the variety pack. Cross-sell merchandise in your catalog. Be consistent in how your present your product information.

For copies of Valentino�s hand-out materials from these sessions, contact her at ginav@jschmid.com.

 

�Circulation 101 - Techniques to Improve Response� (Basic)
Michele Houston, LENSER
Learning to segment your buyer file according to how your customers buy from you is a key element for improving response. �RFM� stands for �recency, frequency, monetary� segmentation. This term refers to under-standing how recent a customer has purchased from you, how frequently they purchase from you and how much they spend on your products. RFM was one of the main informational points Houston stressed in this �basic� session. She also explained other segmentation options, such as seasonality and multi hits, and she discussed the effectiveness, usefulness and costs associated with various list hygiene products to be used for both house file and prospect names.
Michelle Houston, Senior Circulation Manager, LENSER.

 

�Circulation Plans and Strategies� (Advanced)
Michele Houston, LENSER
Once a cataloger has a basic understanding of circulation techniques, can they gain even better response from their house and prospect files? Most certainly, said Houston. �There are several things a catalog mailer can do to further enhance respsonse.� Among the topics Houston discussed in the �advanced� session of the circulation workshop were how to properly merge priorities for both a cataloger�s housefile and prospect file; creating powerful clusters of multi-buyers and the effective use of cooperative databases. Houston also shared tips on learning how often to mail a housefile and contact strategies based on order curves.

For copies of Houston�s hand-out materials, contact her at michelle@lenser.com.

 

�Nine Steps to Creating an Extraordinary Merchandise Offering� 
Sheryl Felty, Full Spectrum Innovations, Inc.

Creating an extraordinary merchandise offering differentiates your brand in the marketplace and helps keep your customers loyal. According to product marketing expert Sheryl Felty, Full Spectrum Innovations, Inc. Felty reviewed a 9-point checklist for offering products your customers will want to purchase from you:
  1. Know your market niche and lead customers to the next level. Your niche must be clear on all of your marketing materials. Make sure your cus tomers recognize immediately who you are.
  2. How is your product relevant to your customers? Know your customers and their lifestyles.
  3. Investigate when you gather merchandise intelligence. Assess what your customers are buying. Keep up on market research and national surveys to know what is going on across the country. Peruse trade shows, other retail garden shops, magazines and trade publications, other catalogs, web sites and e-mail offers.
  4. Use exclusives to build your brand. Unique merchandise sets you apart. Give your customers more than they expect.
  5. Keep your merchandise vision clearly in mind. Test everything you sell.
  6. Create a catalog that is easy for your customers to buy from.
  7. Understand each product�s profitability.
  8. Expand what works, replace what doesn�t.
  9. Surprise and delight your customers with remarkable merchandise and they will keep coming back to you!

Sheryl Felty, Full Spectrum Innovations, Inc., answers a question Lisa Wright, Horticulture, had after Sheryl�s session.

For copies of Felty�s hand-out materials, contact her at fullspec@together.net

 

�Past Presidents Share MGA Knowledge with First Time Convention Attendees�

Our organization strives to make first-time attendees feel welcome and to help them get the most from their MGA experience. This is why a special luncheon is held in honor of those attending an MGA convention for the first time. MGA past presidents� willingly share with first time attendees information about the organization -- its purpose and the benefits it offers to direct marketers, wholesale suppliers and support businesses in the gardening industry.
Past MGA President John Miller (left),
Miller Nurseries and current MGA
President Bruce Frasier, (right)
Dixondale Farms, welcome first-timer
Mary McKaskle, also from Dixondale
Farms.

 

KEYNOTE PRESENTATION - �Engaged Leadership: A Comprehensive Approach to Leadership�
Clint Swindall, President/CEO Verbalocity, Inc.

Outstanding leadership within an organization comes from people who practice what is called �Engaged Leadership� -- a proactive approach to leadership that involves being engaged at all levels, including the vision, the inspiration and the expertise. Clint Swindall, President and CEO, Verbalocity, Inc., understands the importance of providing leadership from all three areas in order for an organization to really be successful. Swindall, who spoke to MGA convention attendees in San Antonio, was back again in in Baltimore. This time he shared his unique approach for how we can all work on developing �engaged� leadership skills.
Clint Swindall (right), Verbalocity, Inc., referred to MGA convention attendee Charley Power, The Pond Guy, as the Matthew Perry look-alike

Swindall talked about �directional�, �operational� and �motivational� leadership and the importance of all three skills in order to become a truly engaged leader. The directional leader shapes the organization�s culture. This is the leader that keeps the team on track -- they set expectations for team and the consequences, and they follow-through on consequences when necessary.

The motivational leader inspires performance toward the vision and they know how to make employees want to cultivate the organization�s desired culture. They ensure that �what we say and what we do� are the same. Swindall mentioned there are three categories of employees -- the top 10% can be called �The Oh, Boys!� This group is enthusiastic and willing to do more than their share to help the company to grow. The bottom 10% is known as �The Oh, Nos!�. These are the ones that are negative about everything and will pull others down with them if you are not careful. The middle 80% are �The OKs�. Basically, these are good employees who will generally go along with the forward trends, but sometimes they can be somewhat pessimistic. Swindall stressed the importance of getting the middle 80% to elevate toward the top group. In order to do this, the motivational leader searches for the lighter side of life and they make celebration a part of daily operations.

The operational leader is the real manager of the personnel end of business. This leader enhances communications and focuses on helping employees do their job. Motivational leaders understand why employees fail and will work with them to overcome roadblocks in performing their jobs well. They review personal and team performance regularly and they are aware of generational differences of employees and how these attitude can affect job peformance.

Swindall presents his information with a lighthearted approach. He emphasized that one of his goals for the presentation was to make each person in the audience laugh and think. �First, I believe we learn more when we laugh, and truly enjoy the learning process,� said Swindall. He closed his talk with these final thoughts:

  • No matter how serious your life requires you to be, everyone needs a friend to act a little goofy with!
  • Being kind is more important than being right.
  • The best classroom in the world is at the feet of a �seasoned� person.
  • Stay focused on the Good Stuff!

For copies of Swindall�s hand-out materials, contact him at clint@clintswindall.com.

 

�WELCOME BACK SOCIAL�
Sponsored by Organic Gardening Magazine
In keeping with Clint Swindall�s advice that it�s important to laugh and have fun, the MGA provides social time at its conventions as well. Here are a few shots from the Welcome Back Social on Wednesday evening.

Olivia Merveille (left), Gardening Supply Warehouse, and Mary McKaskle, Dixondale Farms.

(L-R) Steve Lepera (left), Mantis, Jim Bryant, Gardening How-To and MGA Vice President, and Jim Steiner, Presidio Garden Products.

Carol Schram (left), Smithers-Oasis and Edwin Visser, K. Van Bourgondien & Sons.

Pam and Bill Martin, Dixondale Farms.

(L-R) John Miller, Miller Nurseries, Patricia Crowley, Barbara Miller, and Don Shannehan, Spencer Press.

Alicia Blair (left) and Lisa Riebe, Fine Gardening.

(L-R) Cor Heemskerk, Bulb Trends, Jacqueline van de Kemp, DMC International BV, Mike Peck, PBM Group, and Jim Foster, DMC International.

(L-R) Amy Carey, Berkshire Direct, Brent Thomas, Park Seed and Cathy Austermann, Fine Gardening.
Thursday, July 22, 2004 - Day Two

�The Power of Personalities�
Clint Swindall, President/CEO Verbalocity, Inc.

Good communication is a common challenge in any organization. While many organizations focus on what information is communicated, smart organizations also focus on how it is communicated. This is important to them because they realize that every employee has a unique way of receiving information based on their personality type.

Clint Swindall, president/ceo Verbalocity, Inc., led this second session at the summer convention, which highlighted the reasons importance of looking beyond our own personalities in order to help us understand what is happening with other personality types. He started off the session by having everyone take a short personality test to better understand their own personality and how we relate to others around us. Swindall stressed that once we know our own personality type we have to be willing to adjust to get along with other personality types.

The four personality types he described are: Methodical -- This is the detail person. They appear to lack emotion, focusing more on accuracy and basing decisions on logic. Aggressive -- This is the person who takes charge of situations. They�re disinterested in details, but rather deals with the big picture. The aggressive personality is impatient with inactivty. Outgoing -- This person�s enthusiam for what they�re working on can sometimes cloud the issue. They function well in social settings and they surround themselves with inspirational materials. Supportive -- Looking for a team player, this is the personality you want. The supportive personality avoids change at all costs. They tend to often times not get what they want, because they settle for what will make others happy.

Swindall pointed out that in understanding different personality types, it is evident that opposites often encounter the greatest conflicts with each other, while at the same time they often have the greatest need for that opposite personality type. For example, methodical and outgoing are often considered opposites as are supportive and aggressive. He also mentioned that a person�s personality can be made up of more than one type.

Supportive/Outgoing -- This combination represents a �people person�
Methodical/Aggressive -- This is the �task oriented person�
Methodical/Supportive -- This person tends to �ask� others opinions
Aggressive/Outgoing -- This person tends to �tell� others the way a situation will be.

When examining our own personality and how we might improve our outlook for the future, Swindall stressed focusing on all aspects of life -- career, health, mind, relationships (with yourself, your family and your friends), and values (personal character). How we approach change also effects how we deal with the future. Swindall mentioned five approaches to change and encouraged us to think about which category we fit in. The five categories of how people deal with change are: create it . . . anticipate it . . . react to it . . . fight it . . . ignore it.

He closed this session with a few comments about the importance of �learning, unlearning and relearning� in order to continually grow in our life and left us with this quote: �The illiterate of the future will not be those who do not know how to read, it will be those who do not know how to learn.�

 

�List Advancement & Co-op List Exhaustion� 
Amy Farley, Vice President/Brokerage, MeritDirect

Mailing to the right list of customers and prospects is an important element in a successful mailing plan. As catalog firms grow, they may find it beneficial to work with a list broker. Amy Farley, Vice President/Brokerage, MeritDirect, shared valuable infor mation about what catalogers gain from working with a list broker.
  • List brokers will help you develop a direct marketing plan consistent with your goals.
  • They possess a wealth of list industry experience.
  • Their experience, creative ideas, list suggestions, order tracking and results analysis are part of the package. You do not pay extra for this information.
  • List brokers can provide a more diverse offering of prospect lists, and they are generally more efficient in count/order turn-around.
  • They know and understand list overlay capabilities that should work for your mailing.

Amy Farley, MeritDirect.

Farley also discussed how the current state of the economy has affected mailing results, and why the slower economy further impacts the importance of maintaining your database.

For copies of Farley�s hand-out material, contact her at afarley@meritdirect.com

 

LILYPONS WATER GARDENS HOSTS CONVENTION TOUR
Frederick, MD
MGA member firm, Lilypons Water Gardens, graciously hosted the convention attendees Thursday afternoon at their headquarters near Frederick, MD. Margaret Koogle, president of Lilypons, and her staff gave guided tours of the display gardens, the demonstra- tion pavillion, the koi pond and the production pond. Visitors also had the opportunity to shop in the company store there. Special thanks to Koogle and her staff for their hospitality and to Brown Printing Co. for providing the box lunches enroute to Lilypons and the refreshing ice cream dessert while at Lilypons. The photos verify the fun afternoon we enjoyed.

Marina Broere (left), Bulb Trends, chats with Margaret Koogle (right), in the Lilypons gift shop.

Lisa (left) Brown Printing and Jim Feinson, Gardener�s Supply, discuss a printing sample Brown Printing had on display at Lilypons

�Tour anyone?�This groups looks ready. (L-R) Roberta Simpson-Dolbeare, Brookside Marketing, Miles Ott, Organic Gardening, Dillon Wells, son of Diana Wells, New Growth.

On a hot summer day, what�s more fun than playing with water. Enjoying the cool touch is Sarah Gerritsen, daughter of Jim and and Megan Gerritson, Wood Prairie Farm.
�CRAB FEAST AT OBRYCKI�S� - EVENING SOCIAL EVENT
Pictures say it better than words when it comes to describing a fun evening with lots of great food! MGAers enjoyed a full-fledge crab feast at one of Baltimore�s most popular restaurants.
Tina Pipitone (left) MGA Executive Assistant, appears to be teaching Lisa Riebe, Fine Gardening, the art of cracking crabs.

It�s family night at Obrycki�s. And the Martin family was ready for a great time! Byron and Laurelynn Martin own Logee�s Greenhouses.

The Gerritsen family was at the crab feast in full force as well. Jim and Megan Gerritson own Wood Prairie Farm.

The folks from Dixondale Farms go at their eating with gusto. Jeanie Frasier (center) may have gotten a squirt of crab juice in her eye as husband Bruce attemps to crack a crab open. Pam and Bill Martin (lower right) decided to play it safe by eating fried chicken. In upper left is Barb Emerson, Horticulture.

(L-R) Kerry Fisher, Wildseed Farms, Amy Carey, Berkshire Direct and Fred Van Bourgondien, K. Van Bourgondien & Sons, seem to be taking this crab feast rather seriously don�t you think?

�Okay Ed, now what did you say I�msup- posed to do with this thing?� asks Jean Vivlamore, Miller Nurseries of her fiance Ed Norton (left). Jean and Ed announced their engagement to be married at the MGA meeting. Congratulations and best wishes to the happy couple!

�Take a break and smile for the camera, Kim.� Kim Sullivan (center) Meredith Corp. At left is Wayne Carrington, Woman�s Day SIPs. At right is Wyleen Jones, Beaty Fertilizer.

�Okay fellas, one more time. First you crack the crab like this and . . .� MGA ExecutiveDirector, is a pro crab cracker and appears to be trying to show the Wells men how to do it.

Skye Lewis, iBehavior, seems to think fancy tools are necessary to get to the crab meat.
Friday, July 23, 2004 - Day Three

�Local Marketing -- 12-Mile Prospecting�
Tom Kothman, President, Integrity in Action.

Direct marketers need to do more �prospecting locally� for a better path to future success. This is the opinion of Tom Kothman, President of Integrity in Action. According to Kothman, local marketing involves, what he terms as �geodemographic targeting�. This is a combination of examining customer lifestyle, psychographic and attitudinal data, demographic data (i.e. location, income, etc.) and predictive modeling. Kothman described examples of how target marketing is being done down to very specific local levels with very positive impact on response results.

 
FAREWELL BRUNCH/CLOSING PRESENTATION
John A. Rapp, Senior Vice President of Operations, USPS.

The United States Postal Service (USPS) is making an effort to drive out costs across a variety of product lines and is also doing extensive planning in packaging and shipping methods which should better serve the direct marketing gardening industry in the near future. Senior Vice President of Operations for the USPS, John A. Rapp, spoke at the closing brunch, sharing information about �what�s new� in the USPS and he graciously answered questions from the audience. Here are some of the questions he replied to:

John A. Rapp (left), Senior Vice President of Operations, USPS, with MGA Vice President Jim Bryant, Gardening How-To.

Q. Can customers purchase prepaid and customized boxes in bulk � say $20,000 worth at a time?
A.
Currently, prepaid only works if the packaging is flat rate and also envelopes. We have in the past supplied Prepaid Flat Rate envelopes in bulk and could do the same for Mailgardening Association or their members. We are not in a position to offer Prepaid Flat Rate boxes right away as they have not been approved for sale.

Q. Can customized boxes be made with air vents?
A.
Yes.

Q. In order to get free Priority Mail supplies, customization and co-branding, policy states that the customer has to do $500,000 worth of business with the Postal Service. Is that $500,000 only Priority Mail or does it include catalogs and other business?
A. The $500,000 threshold is for Priority Mail revenue.

Q. How can I get my catalog listed in the Electronic Change of Address?
A.
You should contact Sales Manager, Nan at (781) 891-6723 or donlonn@imagitas.com. Imagitas controls the Movers Guide and Change of Address web page for the Postal Service. Nan will be able to assist Mailorder Gardening Association members to get their information on the �Move your magazines� page on the web.

 
Post Convention Activities

Friday, July 23 - Little Italy Open-Air Film Festival

MGA convention attendees who were able to stay through Friday evening, had the opportunity to experience one of Baltimore�s ethnic neighborhoods, Little Italy. The �young at heart� who attended this festive event enjoyed a true taste of Baltimore. They joined hundreds of locals and tourists sitting in canvas chairs, on blankets and the curbs, dining on delicious local cuisine, listening to the street music and then sitting back to enjoy the movie of the week that is shown outdoors on a massive wall in the center of Little Italy. Here�s a peak at our group in relaxed mode:


The squatter crowd at work. Camille and Tina called in the troops (their daughters and friends) to hold our space for the Little Italy event. (L-R) Ken Brown, friend of Angela Pipitone (2nd from left), Mick Manley (center in back) and Marisa and Alexandra Chioini.

Our gals and their girls! Hats off to MGA Executive Director Camille Cimino (left) and her assistant Tina Pipitone (2nd from right) for their hard work in organizing a great MGA convention, including the pre and post activities. Here they are with their darling daughters -- Camille's girls Marisa and Alexandra (2nd and 3rd from left) and Tina's daughter Angela (far right).

Judith and Nat Florian, American Standard/Florian Tools, dance away the daylight hours awaiting dinner and the outdoor movie.

After a busy week, it�s time for some major relaxing
Saturday, July 24 - Tour of Historic Annapolis, The Naval Academy and a Sailing Trip on the Chesapeake Bay

What a great way to cap off a fantastic convention! Twelve MGA members (including Camille), enjoyed a historic tour of the capital city of Maryland, a tour of the Naval Academy, which is also located in Annapolis, shopping time in downtown Annapolis and a wonderful sailing trip on the Chesapeake Bay.


The MGA tour group outside the Maryland State Capitol. Our tour guide was in period dress from the late 1700/early 1800s and her narration also reflected that time period.

An inside shot of the Naval Academy Chapel.

This group of Navy �plebes� looked mighty young marching across the Naval Academy campus.

Enjoying the boat ride on the Chesapeake are (L-R) Cor Heemskerk and Marina Broere, Bulb Trends, and Randy Schultz, Schultz Communications.

(L-R) Also enjoying this Saturday afternoon boat ride are Jim Bryant, Gardening How-To, Roberta Simpson-Dolbeare, Brookside Marketing and Kerry Fisher, Wildseed Farms.

Keeping watch for pirates who might attack, Nat Florian, American Standard/ Florian Tools.

Enjoying the camraderie are son and father (L-R) Frederick and Claude Lemieux, Dominion Seed House.

He looks like a natural at the helm of this sailing vessel -- our own �Captain Jim� Bryant, Gardening How-To.

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